Culture In A Veterinary Hospital

Host: Hello everyone, welcome to the veterinary business podcast. You are ultimately resource for developing a successful veterinary practice and career. I am Narayan Arurraja, the founder of the veterinary business podcast and one of your co-hosts. On this podcast, we bring you insights and expertise from industry leading doctors, experts and thought leaders. We cover a wide range of topics including practice management, marketing strategies, leadership, HR best practices and much more. Whether you are a practicing veterinary and a practice owner, a practice manager, or a student studying to be a veterinarian, this podcast is for you. It helps you navigate the unique challenges and opportunities in the business of veterinary medicine. Every listener to this podcast is welcome to visit veterinarybusinessinstitute.com

Host: for additional resources and tools to support your growth. And remember, you can subscribe to our podcast on iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, and many other popular podcast platforms. Today, I'm excited to interview, I mean talk to Dr. Amanda Landis Hanna. She's a veterinarian and founder of Landis Hanna Consulting Services. We also proud to announce that she will be joining us as a co-host. So, Dr. Welcome, Dr. Amanda, I hope that's okay if I call you. How would you like me to call you, Dr. That's perfect. I really appreciate you hosting me today, Naren. Thank you. And the topic I want to talk about is culture in a veterinary hospital.

Host: So, before we jump into today's topic, I just want you to take a minute or two to introduce yourself to our listeners. Who are you? What got you into veterinary medicine? And kind of take us to where you are today. Thank you. I am a long-time practicing veterinarian. I've been in practice now for 22 years. I knew I was going to be a veterinarian when I was three years old, and I followed the education pathway to make that passion happen. I have practiced, I have worked in non-profit, I've worked in industry, and I've worked in startups.

Host: And currently today, I do both practice as well as consulting, as you mentioned. And I consult on a variety of different topics, including content production. I give a number of different presentations, specifically around things, like culture in veterinary medicine, as well as mind and overall well-being in the veterinary team. I also speak a lot on accessible veterinary care topics, which is a true passion of mine. Thank you so much. Earlier, I appreciate it joining us as a co-host, and of course I'm so glad to, you know, host you and be the one interviewing you today, and to talk about culture.

Host: So, let me start right at the start. What do you mean by culture? What does it encompass? ulture in a veterinary practice is really the underlying thrum of energy that really encompasses the entirety of the practice. It's not only the interactions between the various human beings that work at the practice, but it also relates to how the veterinary team relates to the individuals that are coming in to seek services. It is, in part, how we respond to each other, how the human interaction really impacts that human animal bond in a veterinary practice. Right, so what I heard you say is culture is all about

Host: the people to people, people to animal relationships, and when you talk about people to people, it's between the team and the doctors, as well as your parents. Absolutely, and we see in a lot of cases where we have a very positive culture, we see high energy, we see good communication skills, we see great follow-up between clients and veterinarians and veterinary team members, where we have less communication, is where sometimes the veterinary team culture may struggle. Right, I know you're a huge fan of learning, and do you think this idea of continuum learning is that critical for a thriving culture in a veterinary practice? Great question, it absolutely is. When you have a culture of education, you have a lot of feedback back and forth

Host: between the various members of the veterinary team because no one person, including the veterinarian, knows everything that there is to know about medicine or about how to interact with the other human beings. There was a long-standing joke back in the olden days when I got my veterinary license that veterinarians were the medicine people that weren't really interested in interacting with humans. However, as you find now, there is no way to escape human human interaction on a daily basis, so our veterinarians have to be fluent, not only in communication with other human beings, but also in how do we educate our clients, how do we educate our team members, and how do we educate ourselves and keep up a constant culture of learning and opportunity? Right, so when you just said educating the clients, that's something I really thought of,

Host: so you're not just talking about the team and the doctor continuing to learn about new technologies, new protocols, things like that, but also educating the clients, getting them on the same page. Can you expand on that a little bit? What does a great culture that education focused look like from the client's perspective? I think from the client's perspective, it looks like a lot of educational opportunities, but it doesn't come from the veterinarian only. It comes from the support staff. It comes from follow-up phone calls asking about how the patient is doing, but also following up on things like how various lab tests or how various diagnostics may be impacting the pet. It's also about granting additional resources. For instance, you may talk to a client in an exam room, but is that client going to remember the information to be able to take it home to the rest

Host: of their family? That is a family member. That patient, that pet is a family member. So everyone has to be on board when it comes to understanding the conditions and understanding the treatment for those individual patients. That's wonderful. Let me ask you another question about culture. I know what a great culture you started describing it, but can you talk about bad culture? The ones you have seen that are like horror stories and what is the implication of bad culture? What is the cost of it? Absolutely. A lot of times when a hospital has a bad culture, it's not purposeful. It's not neglectful. It's not something that they intend to have, but sometimes there is an idea of a top-down leadership approach where a veterinarian medical director or veterinarian feels like they do know everything that there is to know. Not only about medicine, but also about how they intend their practice to be run. The disadvantage of that,

Host: the quote-unquote badness of that culture, is that you're really limiting the feedback of the veterinary team members, as well as the feedback that you might be getting from the clients. And that's really important information to have because that's going to tell you what is feasible for a client, but it's also going to tell you if there's ways to expand your horizons within your practice, potentially capture more revenue, capture more clients, but also serve the clients in a better way. Makes sense. Let me talk about an experience I just had today. Of course, I'm a paid parent, but this is not to do with the veterinary hospital, but a human situation. So my dentist and I had an appointment. I was texted saying she's traveling, so they have to be schedule. And then all of a sudden, I got an expert a new date, and I'm like, well, I can't make it, right? And I told them that I left a message. Now, I'm getting a text for another new date. Like, I mean,

Host: nobody decided to call me to find out, and I'm available. It's really frustrating. And then this is a good dentist. I like the dentist. So I'm going to hopefully share this feedback. She's like a friend. Like, hey, this can be frustrating from the client's perspective. Like, I assume when culture breaks down, things like this happen, right? Like, how would you dissect, right? Now, you are a coach, you help practice on us, like, how what counsel would you give me? Like, let's say you are talking to this dentist. What would he tell, tell this human doctor? I think in this particular case, I would sit down with this dentist and really take a look at the feedback that you're providing. You're having difficulty scheduling. You obviously want to be there. You had an appointment and the dentist had to cancel the appointment. So really, the onus is on the dentist to serve you from a perspective, not only of communication, but also culturally. Does that dentist want their

Host: culture to be sort of dictatorial as it were? Telling you when your appointment is versus asking you when it would be convenient for you to come back in, because that's a relationship that you really want to maintain. You don't want to break down the client patient relationship, and that particular case, by something as simple as a phone call. Just pick up the phone. It's going to make life so much easier for everyone involved and save everyone time and frustration. Right. Yeah, it sounds so simple, but it can be annoying if you don't want them to have the side. And then when I think about it as a patient, it is frustrating, because the second time it's happening, and both times I'm not free. How do you book an appointment someone without knowing when they are available? So anyways. Absolutely. So thank you for that coaching on this part, coaching, appreciate it. So let's talk about culture. I know we live in 2023, right? The

Host: idea of diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging is no longer like a nice to have, it's a must have. So I want to ask you, I mean, there might be some people, oh, it's just, you know, slogans, and whatnot, and they do it because they have to. First convince me that it's good for my practice, and be, how would you go about incorporating that into your culture? The EIB diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging is absolutely vital in a veterinary practice, whether it is a small business, whether it is a corporate practice, whether it is a non-profit, a shelter, because the best medicine is performed when we have a variety of different ideas coming to the table to help provide services to our clients and our patients. When we have a very limited scope, a very limited view of what appropriate service is, we may be missing the boat on what clients are actually looking for. Our clients are not all one background, not all one history, not all one

Host: race, and various cultures outside of the veterinary practice are served by various cultures inside the veterinary practice. If we only approach individuals with one form of communication, with one form of education, with one form of service, we're limiting who we are able to serve. When we include more individuals, when we include a greater diversity of veterinary team members, when we include a variety of different opinions in that veterinary practice, we are more able to serve a greater population of clients and patients, but we're also going to be increasing our opportunities to serve them in the best ways possible. Humans learn from other humans. Yes, we study books, but those books were written by other humans. When we include diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging in our core values in the veterinary practice, we are then able to create this very robust culture where our clients, our veterinary team members, our veterinarians,

Host: our hospital staff, all feel like they have a voice and that voice is incredibly important. We want to serve a variety of different people, so that means that we need to bring a variety of different options and opinions to the table for those individuals to be able to have educated choices. Yes, I do have a few follow-up questions. How do you create belonging? I know that's one of the things you mentioned. How do you create belonging? Can you give me some examples or some strategies? Yes, so in a veterinary practice where you have a really strong culture of belonging, you're doing things like surveying the various team members for their feedback. You're also incorporating that feedback in a day-to-day sort of practice where potentially you are meeting particular individuals scheduling needs. Potentially you have some parents that need one particular type of schedule and yet you may have

Host: other individuals that may be in school and they need a different type of schedule. So when you are encompassing belonging, you're able then to be able to serve your individual team members in the same type of manner that you would serve a client. You want those team members to feel like they have a place no matter what their specific needs are, as well as their own individual needs. That may be individual needs such as personal disabilities, personal challenges, financial needs. We may be talking about by-pocket individuals who have specific needs that would be able to better encompass their cultures within your overall larger veterinary practice. Therefore serving those individuals creating a more robust culture and also potentially increasing your revenue. Thank you. You talked about having diverse sort of team members helps serve a diverse set of patients or clients. Can you give me an example of this by the annual practice or

Host: in other practices where you coach, where you feel this has made such a big difference? Exactly. I think in one particular instance, I had a practice that was specifically looking to expand their client base amongst the larger geographic area, more outside of that five-mile radius that we frequently will think about. They specifically recruited a veterinarian who was going to be able to better serve their clients and they also wanted to make sure that they were very open to the LGBTQIA plus community. So what they did in that case is they partnered with this veterinarian who had a relationship with pride, VMC, which is a partnership of a variety of different LGBTQIA plus veterinarians, veterinary team members, veterinary hospitals and industry members. And they were then able to put logos as well as pride flags up around the hospital in order to ensure that their veterinary clients knew that they were welcoming of individuals

Host: from a variety of different backgrounds, both cisgender as well as individuals who were allies, as well as members of the LGBTQIA plus community. By doing that, they were able to recruit a much more on robust population of clients who knew that they were welcome in this practice, that they were included in this practice and they had opportunities to work with a veterinarian who was gay in their population and was able to serve them. Now, obviously, this veterinary served everyone in that practice. But by being inclusive, that also included a variety of different new clients who were allies and wanted to have the ability to really support the larger community and be able to feel like they were providing support for veterinarians of a diverse background, while at the same time supporting a hospital that was actively supporting the pride population. Thank you for sharing that example. I really appreciate it. I know you said culture is getting

Host: created. Nobody goes ahead and tries to create a bad culture. It gets created automatically. So what's the role of leadership, perhaps a medical director, hospital manager, or even the practice on a slash veterinarian? What is the role of leadership when it comes to culture? I think the leadership's role is really to constantly survey and evaluate culture. Culture is a living organism, a living energy in a veterinary practice. So if you are constantly surveying the culture, surveying the interaction between veterinary team members, surveying the feedback that you're getting from veterinary clients, what you're able to do is identify problems that may be emerging in the culture or limitations that may be emerging in the culture and create change quickly and succinctly. What can be problematic is sometimes when a problem within the culture potentially goes on for a prolonged period of time. Maybe there's a

Host: limitation in what the veterinary leadership is really seeing and negativity is blossoming in that culture where we see divisiveness or we see negative language being utilized in a veterinary practice. When you are able to survey and find out that information, find out how clients are responding to you, find out how veterinary team members are working together, find out how veterinary team members are working with their veterinarians. You're then able to create shifts or create new opportunities to improve the culture, improve the communication, improve the diversity within that veterinary team, thereby creating positive change without needing to do a full redirection. For those people who are new to the concept of culture and we want to give them an example of a culture. How would you define your culture, your practice culture? I'm really lucky to serve veterinarian and work with a variety of different teams. One of the practices that I work with

Host: has a really great culture. They are welcoming to all of the veterinarians and the veterinarians backgrounds, even though those veterinarians are from various races, creeds, cultures, length of time of veterinary practice and different practice styles. The veterinary team is very welcoming and encourages and enjoys learning from each of those veterinarians because obviously veterinarians with different backgrounds have learned different things over their time of practice. So by welcoming different educational opportunities, that veterinary team is also learning new chances to engage with their clients, teach their clients new things, teach their clients new educational resources, whether that's a brochure that a veterinarian has written, or if that's an educational conversation that two veterinarians may be having and may them be relayed to a client. That robust culture then creates an opportunity where everyone feels welcome, included,

Host: and they also feel like they have the leverage and the opportunity to engage with their clients in a very positive way. Thank you. Let's assume a particular practice has a great culture, a positive culture. Just like the one you described, what can deteriorate or erode a positive practice culture? Sometimes it's an individual person who has a limited perspective or a limited view on a overall veterinary team or their clients. Unfortunately, racism exists, certainly it exists within this country overall and it certainly exists in veterinary practice. So when you see a individual with a limited perspective, whether that's due to their background or whether that's due to their personal beliefs, that can rapidly deteriorate a culture and create a very divisive culture where there is both communication breakdown as well as a lot of negativity. It's important for the veterinary team and the veterinary leadership at that point in time to step in and correct

Host: that negativity. And if needed, that individual team member may not be a good fit for a veterinary team that otherwise has a very positive culture. Right and it could also be person A doesn't like person B. It could be even simple things like that. A person A is dominating and you know, does it's not a team player. So there could be all kinds of reasons why culture could fall apart. Right? Absolutely. Thank you so much. I learned a ton from you today, Dr. Amanda. Thank you for also being a co-host. I look forward to, I mean, you are a wealth of knowledge and of course, you're very articulate and I really appreciate having you as one of the co-hosts and of course, I learned a lot today. So appreciate everything you do for all your clients and the veterinary profession at large. If somebody wants to kind of follow you or keep tabs, you know, of course, they're going to be hearing from you in the podcast in coming months and so forth. But outside of

Host: that, how can they go by doing that? They can follow me on my LinkedIn presence, which is at Amanda, dash, dash, land, dash, hanna, which is spelled A. M. A. M. D. A. dash, L. A. N. D. I. S. dash, H. A. N. A. We'll put a link to your LinkedIn. So hopefully, they can stay in touch and possibly even like follow you on LinkedIn. So thank you for joining us today and talking about culture in the veterinary. Hospital, we appreciate it very much. I also want to take a moment to thank our listeners. We appreciate each and every one of you. We cannot do what we do without you. If you like our podcast, please share it with your colleagues and friends on social media, please don't forget to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your reviews will help other doctors and practice on us. Find us, till we meet again. Next time, keep striving for excellence and making a positive impact in the lives of your patients and grandparents, wishing all of you an amazing week ahead. Thank you.